Doll Bar & Grill
The Lobby => Fix-it Shop => Topic started by: Phil on October 30, 2021, 01:05:50 PM
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The failure happened during the last shoot. I wanted a pic of the full skeleton so I would have a good idea of how she can move, but I never received one.
I sent the attached video to Patric a few days ago, haven't heard back yet.
It seems as though the hip joint is welded to a pipe that goes straight up to a cross piece in her mid section where the break is.
I don't know what I am going to do about it yet, going to let some time pass before doing anything.
Phil(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdJZatvBrxA)
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Having difficulty posting the video clip.
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Trying again... The break is higher up than where my hand pats her belly, you can see the movement of the end of the "bone." I figure to cut along the seam at the side of her torso, figure from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp-ii5kL_S0
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When you click on the link , it says the video is private, unavailable. At least on my end.
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Same here.
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Third time s a charm, right?
https://youtu.be/IdJZatvBrxA
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It works for me now, the video is no longer indicated as unavailable.
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This skeleton is supposed to be a JY. It has the same, or so I deduce, configuration to the hips and mid section as my spinner's.
I've not yet cut into her, I won't know for certain what I will facing until I do, but It looks as though the join in the circled space has come undone.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-03_at_8_04_38_PM.png)
Has anyone here had a similar situation to deal with?
I am open to suggestion!
Phil
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I am so sorry this has happened to Natalie Phil. :(
I have had a broken spine on a Sinthetics doll. I didn't have to worry about cutting her open as the incision was already made for me :o. It made for a very messy close. >:(
One question would be. Is her skeleton all metal tubing or is it PVC plastic? Her joints could be metal but the bones could be plastic PVC pipe. I can't see an all metal skeleton breaking unless a bolt in a joint came out. Or the welds are really shitty.
If this picture is a true depiction of her skeleton , the area that is circled looks like it could be a welded joint . I can't see a welded joint breaking unless it was an extremely shitty weld. I wonder if there is a bolted joint there that came apart OR the back joint to the right of the circle came apart .If your lucky the bolt in the back joint may have come out. That at least would be a much easier fix then a broken weld on that hip. One way that may tell the tale is to hold her by the shoulders and move them side to side or back and forth. and place another hand down by the small of her back. If that lower back joint has come apart you should feel the spine moving around in that area .
Either way, it's major surgery as you already know. My heart goes out to you and Natalie. :o
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That's a metal skeleton, and unless it's detached at the BOLT in the center, you have a broken frame. TPE has a very low melting point, so welding is out of the question, but JB Weld might work. If successfully fixed, she will have significant scarring. So, you want to make as clean a cut as possible so the scar is not too ghastly. I'd go in from the back. If a reasonably stout fix that can withstand your requirements cannot be obtained, I'd say it's time for another body. Good luck!
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That's a metal skeleton, and unless it's detached at the BOLT in the center, you have a broken frame. TPE has a very low melting point, so welding is out of the question, but JB Weld might work. If successfully fixed, she will have significant scarring. So, you want to make as clean a cut as possible so the scar is not too ghastly. I'd go in from the back. If a reasonably stout fix that can withstand your requirements cannot be obtained, I'd say it's time for another body. Good luck!
Thanks for the input Begog. I have a very sharp filet knife I've been thinking about using since a razor would require many cuts leaving many facets which would compound scarring. Though the knife would probably do the same. On chat the other night it was suggested that drilling and installing 90 degree steel brackets might work. I hadn't thought of JB weld, maybe a combination of JB and brackets applying JB to the inside as well as outside of the piping.
Phil
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You're welcome. Drilling and bolting could also work, but however you fix it, it needs to not make noise, come loose, or need to be repaired again any time soon. The scar is what you have to live with. Mahtek has found some TPE glue that dries soft. Find the spot and go straight in. Good luck, friend.
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She's silicone, so that part shouldn't be a problem. I like your idea to go in from the back, that would have access be easier for drilling.
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Picked up a Lifetime table today from Costco, taped my Thermarest air mattress to it so it won't slip off. I'll lay a bedsheet over the top, this ought to make an adequate operating table.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-05_at_6_28_42_PM~0.png)
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She's a mess in there. The weld actually held, at least in some places. The frame was bending, possibly cracking the weld at some point until the frame was fatigued enough to snap.
I asked patrick for a photo of the skeleton so I'd know how the skeleton moves, that would've been a big help. He sent a pic of her shoulders, and that was a help, but nothing else. Needless to say, I am miffed. If I had known more about the frame, This may not have happened, but here we are.
There is no clean break to fix.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-05_at_11_12_45_PM.png)
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-06_at_3_50_16_PM.png)
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This end is more mangled than the other, I'd have to cut it off to within a half inch of the center weld where the joint for the spine is attached to have a clean end of structural integrity. It can be seen, the weld is good, the steel is pretty cheap. Patrick told me it cost him $1,000 for this skeleton. I have to wonder...
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-06_at_12_07_18_AM.png)
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The welds are really good, the nuts are even spot welded to the bolts so they cannot come loose. Unfortunately, they are too tight and the square "bones" can twist thus fatiguing the metal. I think she could have still been a standing doll if the joints weren't so tight. Fahhhhhk!
I thought I might've been able to loosen some joints up a bit, but since they're welded can't do that. There will be a gap between the mid-section cross piece and the section that broke off. I don't know how they can be re-attached.
The fix would have to be very strong since that area is highly stressed. Though if the joints were loosed in her hips and mid-section, It's possible the break might be repaired since it would no longer be highly stressed. I wouldn't mind if she were just a bed doll.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-06_at_4_10_42_PM.png)
A possibility to remove the nut/bolt weld with a dremmel has occurred to me. I'd have to cut into the hips to get at those. I could try it with the mid-section swivel first. I'm pretty much resigned to the idea she won't be a standing doll anymore. This pic is the mid-section swivel/ bend joint.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-06_at_3_48_50_PM.png)
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Wow!! I'm so sorry, I don't know what to suggest. :(
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Wow! I wouldn't have thought a standing doll would have such light gauge metal skeleton, but seeing is believing.
Maybe you have thought of this already? Anyway , this is just food for thought There are a couple some of repair options that I could think of. Hardware store copper pipe and/or possibly mending plates for cabinetry. Copper pipe could be used to join two broken pieces together. Insert two broken pieces inside the pipe. Drill though and use bolts to fasten the two broken pieces to the pipe. Fill the empty space in the pipe with epoxy after. You could probably forget about using bolts because epoxy is probably stronger after it cures.
You can get straight or 90 degree mending plates that may work. Lay over top of the broken pieces drill though and use bolts or screws to fasten together. Or possibly us a combination of mending plates and pipe to cobble a joining piece. Like I said, these are just ideas.but something like that may work. The sad part about this skeleton is that the repaired area would end up being stronger then the skeleton. It may just break again some place else.
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Thanks Smoke, but I don't understand about using the copper pipe, how does that work with a 90 degree angle?
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Thanks Smoke, but I don't understand about using the copper pipe, how does that work with a 90 degree angle?
I thought you might be able to cobble a couple of pieces of pipe as joiners then mend them with 90 degree mending plates into a joiner.
Begog's idea in chat is genius! Get a tee and cut one end off. This will give you a 90 degree joiner. Brilliant. :thumb:
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Thanks Smoke, but I don't understand about using the copper pipe, how does that work with a 90 degree angle?
I thought you might be able to cobble a couple of pieces of pipe as joiners then mend them with 90 degree mending plates into a joiner.
Begog's idea in chat is genius! Get a tee and cut one end off. This will give you a 90 degree joiner. Brilliant. :thumb:
I'm Begog, and I approve this message. :egyptian:
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Phil.
I don’t have anything to offer but best wishes on a successful repair.
When it comes to Doll repairs, the group here, wrote the book.
Looks like we are adding another chapter.
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The cold hard truth about doll ownership is that the manufacture is more then happy to sell you a doll, but you are on your own when it breaks. We just try and help anyway we can, to keep them out of the landfill.
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The cold hard truth about doll ownership is that the manufacture is more then happy to sell you a doll, but you are on your own when it breaks. We just try and help anyway we can, to keep them out of the landfill.
Yes, Patrick had to go to China for the skeletons, Nobody else could do it for the price he was willing to pay. So the consumer pays for the shortfall
Wel... I'm working at cleaning up the ends. If I go with internal fix, I'll have to put a hose clamp or two around the outside. The corner that split would continue to do so.
Since it's almost 60 F and sunny, I'll now saddle up for a bike ride, maybe the last one this year.
Phil
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-07_at_1_24_02_PM.png)
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-07_at_1_13_27_PM.png)
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-07_at_1_24_58_PM.png)
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Had a good ride, supper, and got the end on the cross piece cleaned up.
An advantage to an interior fix would be having the insert travel past the weld of the joint. I don't know yet how long the other end could be.
It just occurred to me the possibility of both interior and exterior with JB weld slathered around the insert and inside the pipe which would be the exterior.
There is the possibility that the frame welded to the hip joint is cracked, it could be only a matter of time before that goes. But why get ahead of ones self? You can be sure I'll be treating her with much care after this. I remember Patrick telling me I could horse her around pretty good. I have to wonder how many standing spinners having failures it took for him to discontinue the standing feature?
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-07_at_5_56_40_PM~0.png)
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-07_at_6_05_35_PM.png)
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All I can say is, Natalie 2 sure is lucky to have such a determined loving owner :) I wish you all the best with this repair :)
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All I can say is, Natalie 2 sure is lucky to have such a determined loving owner :) I wish you all the best with this repair :)
Thanks Ceej, a plan is coalescing in my mind, I feel positive about it now.
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That's great! 8)
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Receive all my positive thoughts for the success of this operation Phil. ;)
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Thanks guys for your heartfelt well wishes! JB has offered to make an L shaped insert to my specifications which with luck will have her back on her feet before long.
Messaging with Patrick, he said he's given up on making the dolls, got burned out. They're all poured in China now.
Phil
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These pics illustrate how an "L" shaped insert will connect the frame. One end will go first into cross piece about 4 or 5" in the belly, and with the leg stretched, it ought to be possible to get about 4 or 5" inches of insert into the piece coming up from the hip.
Here is how she rests, more or less. I'lll come up with measurements for the insert later today.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-08_at_1_06_09_PM.png)
With the leg stretched it should be possible to get enough insert into the hip section.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-08_at_1_08_55_PM.png)
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OK. I see clearly now what is going on here. I can't see why that would not work. Kudos to JB!!!
All the best on this repair Phil!!! :thumb:
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You cleaned that up beautifully!
As with Smoke, seeing that last pic, I also have a better idea what your dealing with.
Wonderful of JB to help make up the new bracket!
I can't see nothing but a successful repair! 8) :thumb:
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(https://octanecdn.com/jbweldcom/jbweldcom_294558229.png)
Go JB !
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(https://octanecdn.com/jbweldcom/jbweldcom_294558229.png)
Go JB !
Yes, I'll use the JB weld inside the frame around the insert, possibly externally as well contained by piping to eliminate flexing of the repair. Sound good?
Phil
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Thanks guys for your heartfelt well wishes! JB has offered to make an L shaped insert to my specifications which with luck will have her back on her feet before long.
Messaging with Patrick, he said he's given up on making the dolls, got burned out. They're all poured in China now.
Phil
Here are a couple pics of new TPE spinners. The make up isn't as good, sprayed areoles, but at $1,080 most will be happy.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-08_at_9_51_11_PM.png)
This is the Natalie head.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/normal_Screen_Shot_2021-11-08_at_9_50_15_PM.png)
I feel fortunate to have a couple of the last of Patrick's silicone spinners, they'll never look this good again.
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/102/Screen_Shot_2021-11-08_at_11_26_46_PM.png)
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Here are a couple pics of new TPE spinners. The make up isn't as good, sprayed areoles, but at $1,080 most will be happy.
Unfortunately, as with most things in life, we get what we pay for. I think at a grand a pop , all we have to look forward too, are more broken spinners.
The good news here is it looks like we are going to get Miss Natalie (by far the most beautiful of all spinners by the way) back on her feet. And that is what matters. :thumb:
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The chrome molybdenum steel insert which is Natalie's new hip. Many thanks to JB for this! :bow:
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-09_at_10_20_53_PM.png)
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I should have time to post today. You are most welcome.
JB
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That's a pretty sweet looking part!
I think we found a solution for doll skelletons...they need to be designed and made by an aircraft mechanic!
Very nicely done JB! :bow:
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Ceej,
I wouldn't go that far! I hope it works for our friend Phil. I asked him to take pictures for future repair needs.
JB
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I can't see a reason why that won't work beautifully! 8)
Way to go guys!! :thumb:
Now let's get sexy Natalie back on her feet!! :heart:
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Nice job, JB. Looks solid. Good luck Phil.
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This is pure gold! Now I must do a bit of shopping
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-15_at_2_03_53_PM.png)
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I've peeled back the silicone to check out the weld on the other side, and it looks good. I am a bit concerned though, if I ought to shorten the insert on the horizontal section if I might ever need to perform the same operation on the other side.
I am going to be very careful how I use her from now on so as not to over stress that area. OK, I've chosen not to cut the inset, iff the other side breaks, I'll deal with it.
Phil
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Began by ramming some paper towel into the tube to prevent JB Weld from flowing further down the hole. Using Dad's pallet knife to place gobs of JB Weld into the hole, and gobbing it into the copper pipe section before placing it onto the frame.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-15_at_6_43_57_PM.png)
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-15_at_6_43_12_PM.png)
I didn't know how much working time I'd have before the stuff started to set up, so began working right away. Turns out I could've waited
20 minutes or so, the stuff kept flowing out of the copper pipe. I'd wipe it up and apply more at the top until it stopped flowing. Instructions say it'll set is 4 to 6 hours, but after a half hour it stops flowing though it's still plenty pliable..
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-15_at_6_43_25_PM~0.png)
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-15_at_6_43_48_PM~0.png)
That last shot illustrates where the JB Weld stopped flowing. Full cure in 15- 24 hrs. I'll let it sit until tomorrow evening before resuming work.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-15_at_7_26_08_PM.png)
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Gad Muther fracking Zook's what a mess this job became! Now I must sit with her as the JB hardens trying to remove any that's where it shouldn't be. It won't stick to the silicone, that's the saving grace.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-16_at_7_24_05_PM~0.png)
The curing JB Weld picks up with a butter knife sticking to the metal far more than silicone.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-16_at_7_24_16_PM.png)
The curing JB will roll up between the fingers for easy placement to fill where it ran out when runny.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-17_at_12_58_55_AM.png)
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-17_at_12_59_07_AM~0.png)
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......."ohhhh sister morphine.... when are ya, coming' 'round.... again"
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-16_at_8_33_19_PM.png)
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".........ohhhhh... an' ah don' think ah can wait, that long...."
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-16_at_8_38_22_PM.png)
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The poor baby! :(
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(https://ca.binnacle.com/images/productimages/36249A-MED.jpg)
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I wrapped the copper in electricians tape to be safe, though silicone is supposed to be safe with copper.
Begining to silpoxy the deepest cuts working one section at a time. The skin layer will be the last, and that will be done in sections as well to get the best least scared finish.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-17_at_1_46_31_PM.png)
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Keep up the good work Phil, when you are done give that poor girl a bath!!!!! I am kidding, I think!
JB
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Keep up the good work Phil, when you are done give that poor girl a bath!!!!! I am kidding, I think!
JB
She needs one. I'm cleaning her where she lays, what I can reach and powdering. Will probably finish with closing the incision tomorrow, I'll roll her over and clean her frontally.
Phil
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Didn't finish closing today, taking smaller steps. Moved her leg though, didn't hear anything pop! ;)
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:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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One more day should do it.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-19_at_1_07_00_PM.png)
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:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Looking good 8)
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"Another day? I'm really getting tired of lying here... old man."
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-19_at_1_05_52_PM.png)
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I had accidentally pinched off a bit of silicone from this edge of the incision here, (that's my little finger) soft silicone is really soft, must be handled with care.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-20_at_12_29_19_PM.png)
So I filled the tiny area with silpoxy, pinched it together and wiped up the excess with acetone on a rag. Then held on as long as I could stand before wrapping with packing tape to hold it together. I'll leave it for 24 hrs.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-20_at_12_29_31_PM.png)
"ANOTHER day he says... *SIGH*"
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-20_at_12_29_45_PM.png)
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looing good!!! :thumb:
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Thanks! Might've been better, but I found myself tryin to expedite the closure, big mistake.
Phil
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"Are you feeling better Luv?"
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-20_at_6_40_19_PM.png)
"Wananother vicodin..."
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-20_at_6_41_30_PM.png)
"We're out of Vicodin, Tylenol 3's gonna have to do."
"Gimme two."
"Right, but no more wine."
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-20_at_6_52_57_PM.png)
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The incision tore at either end during the operation which made a clean closing more problematic.
All in all not to bad.
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-21_at_11_38_06_AM.png)
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Great Job Phil!! :thumb:
A little scarring is not the end of the world. We all have a scar or two , here and there. 8)
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Great Job Phil!! :thumb:
A little scarring is not the end of the world. We all have a scar or two , here and there. 8)
Thanks Smoke!
Yep, Most of mine are on the inside.
"Are you ready to get up?"
"Maybe... I'm aching all over"
"Opioid withdrawl babe, that shit's a two edge sword."
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-21_at_1_21_24_PM.png)
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Very nice repair! 8)
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Very nice repair! 8)
Thank you Ceej, I was dreading having to cut into her, but there was no way around it. The hardest part was making that incision.
I must thank who ever it was in chat that suggested I go in from the back. I think I said that I'd go in the side at the seam which would've been a waste. I would've had to glue her up.
And :bow: :bow: :bow: to JB for the chrome moly right angle!
Phil
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/106/Screen_Shot_2021-11-20_at_6_41_30_PM.png)
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Well done Phil, well done. Glad to have helped.
JB
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Well done, you have now joined the ranks of the reluctant doll doctors !
looks a fine job :thumb:
:oldman:
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Thanks guys!
She's back to her normal self...
"What's a girl hafta do around here to get some action?
(http://www.ourdollcommunity.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Screen_Shot_2021-11-22_at_3_28_38_PM.png)
"Hmmmm?"
(http://www.ourdollcommunity.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Screen_Shot_2021-11-22_at_1_22_33_PM.png)
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She looks wonderful! What a great recovery 8)
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(http://www.ourdollcommunity.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Screen_Shot_2021-11-23_at_12_50_00_AM.png)
She owns me....
(http://www.ourdollcommunity.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Screen_Shot_2021-11-23_at_12_49_22_AM~0.png)
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Nicely done, Phil. I have been watching the progress on this thread as well as getting updates in chat. Job well done!
(https://dollbarandgrill.com/forum/chat/img/emoticons/yipee.gif)
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Thanks guys, I feel pretty good about it!
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/102/Screen_Shot_2021-11-23_at_10_30_35_AM.png)
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"Do we have to put this table away?
I like the positioning it gives us."
(https://www.dollbarandgrill.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/102/Screen_Shot_2021-11-23_at_3_20_06_PM.png)
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8) 8) 8) You know the repair went well, when she's ready to play. 8) 8) 8)